10 x 10 for 2016

SamVS Sun 14 Feb 2016, 23:06

Not too late for new Year's resolutions, is it?

http://www.icallyellow.com/2016/01/sort-of-timely-review-of-new-york-1901.html

Nick Mariner wrote:Finally, this year I intend to complete a 10 x 10 list. If you don't know what this idea is, it's where a player declares ten games in their collection that they will play ten times in the following year. That might not sound like a lot, but folks who play a lot of games, especially when you do a thing like this blog where you try to review games frequently, have the tendency to get a new thing to the table once or twice and then it sits on the shelf indefinitely. Even if you liked it, which is a little silly.

My game collection isn't going to be sufficient for this, but it takes two-or-more to tabletop so if other people want to do this I'll happily join in to help them get the most of their games (altruism yo).

PaulC Mon 15 Feb 2016, 07:25

physical games only, or can I include apps?

**DaveB** Mon 15 Feb 2016, 07:39

Sam wrote:Not too late for new Year's resolutions, is it?

http://www.icallyellow.com/2016/01/sort-of-timely-review-of-new-york-1901.html

Nick Mariner wrote:Finally, this year I intend to complete a 10 x 10 list. If you don't know what this idea is, it's where a player declares ten games in their collection that they will play ten times in the following year. That might not sound like a lot, but folks who play a lot of games, especially when you do a thing like this blog where you try to review games frequently, have the tendency to get a new thing to the table once or twice and then it sits on the shelf indefinitely. Even if you liked it, which is a little silly.

My game collection isn't going to be sufficient for this, but it takes two-or-more to tabletop so if other people want to do this I'll happily join in to help them get the most of their games (altruism yo).

The one problem I have with this is the games I struggle to get to the table atm are too big to have any hope of getting ten plays in, and filling the list with the likes of Hanabi and Star Realms feels a little like cheating Smile

PaulC Mon 15 Feb 2016, 08:31

DaveB wrote:The one problem I have with this is the games I struggle to get to the table atm are too big to have any hope of getting ten plays in, and filling the list with the likes of Hanabi and Star Realms feels a little like cheating

Well that's just defeatist!

**DaveB** Mon 15 Feb 2016, 08:37

PaulC wrote:
DaveB wrote:The one problem I have with this is the games I struggle to get to the table atm are too big to have any hope of getting ten plays in, and filling the list with the likes of Hanabi and Star Realms feels a little like cheating
Well that's just defeatist!

I'm talking about the likes of BSG and Forbidden Stars...

I suppose it would probably work better if people grouped into say fours and then decided a list between them Smile

BeardyTom Mon 15 Feb 2016, 13:25

I always think I should play more plays of fewer games. There's lots of games that I really like and want to get deeper into the strategy of them but then I've only played them two or three times, simply because there's always something else to play.

So, yeah, I think 10 plays of 10 games could be a worthwhile aim, and I suppose you can adjust it to suit yourself, e.g. maybe Dave could aim for 5 plays of a bigger game like Firefly.

Jamie Mon 15 Feb 2016, 13:50

BeardyTom wrote:I always think I should play more plays of fewer games. There's lots of games that I really like and want to get deeper into the strategy of them but then I've only played them two or three times, simply because there's always something else to play.

I find this too Tom; there's always a shiny new game that comes along to snag ones attention. For me, I'd rather focus on fewer games, ones that I really enjoy, have depth and tick all of the boxes for me. Not that I mind trying something shiny and new from time to time; but I think there's a balance to be had somewhere.

**Lizzy** Mon 15 Feb 2016, 13:51

Can I have a 2 x 100 list and name X-wing and Netrunner?

I guess I already have a few games that I play loads so I'm not so bothered about getting the rest of my collection played regularly. I'm happy to get them out every once in a while. I'm trying to slowly cut my collection down to the games I play more often though. It's so easy to buy games and then only play them once. Or not at all Shocked

Maybe I will aim to play all the games I own at least once this year and get rid of anything that doesn't make it!

**DaveB** Mon 15 Feb 2016, 13:55

Lizzy wrote:Maybe I will aim to play all the games I own at least once this year and get rid of anything that doesn't make it!

I considered this last year but realised that based on that I'd be disposing of some of my favorite games just because I hadn't got them to the table in a while...

I've promised myself to at least try to NOT buy any more games before the Expo in June and instead focus on playing the stuff I own that hasn't got the attention it deserved back to the table - with that in mind my ten would probably be:

Forbidden Stars
BSG
Formula D
Legendary Encounters - Alien
Letters from Whitechapel
Specter Ops
Space Hulk
Splendor
Five Tribes
One Night Ultimate Werewolf

I have no hope or intent of getting ten plays of each in this year.... But I'd like to get every one of them to the table at least once if not more.

**Lizzy** Mon 15 Feb 2016, 14:08

Lizzy wrote:Can I have a 2 x 100 list and name X-wing and Netrunner?

I think this might be too easy a goal. I've already played 19 games of X-Wing this year and probably more Netrunner.

It's official. I play too many games.

SamVS Mon 15 Feb 2016, 18:46

I think a mix of long and short games is necessary. 100 four hours games in 10 months? — 10 four hour games a month, anyone? If you come to every club session that's 50 or so evenings left in the year to play games, maybe time for two medium weight games per evening if you stay all night, plus whatever your arrange outside of club meetings. Certainly a bit of challenge here.

I think I could play 10 games of just, for instance, Forbidden Stars (there seems to be a lot to get into in that game: getting your head around the turn resolution order, learning the combat cards and their potential uses outside of combat), or another fairly huge game, then a bunch of medium and light games — Summoner Wars, Netrunner, Pandemic Legacy, Roll/Race for the Galaxy, Tigris and Euphrates, Memoir '44, and Cosmic Encounter are a few games I would like to deep dive into.

paulyg Mon 15 Feb 2016, 18:48

Sam wrote:I think a mix of long and short games is necessary. 100 four hours games in 10 months? — 10 four hour games a month, anyone? If you come to every club session that's 50 or so evenings left in the year to play games, maybe time for two medium weight games per evening if you stay all night, plus whatever your arrange outside of club meetings. Certainly a bit of challenge here.

I think I could play 10 games of just, for instance, Forbidden Stars (there seems to be a lot to get into in that game: getting your head around the turn resolution order, learning the combat cards and their potential uses outside of combat), or another fairly huge game, then a bunch of medium and light games — Summoner Wars, Netrunner, Pandemic Legacy, Roll/Race for the Galaxy, Tigris and Euphrates, Memoir '44, and Cosmic Encounter are a few games I would like to deep dive into.

I'm up for a deep dive into Cosmic Encounter. Think it could be an interesting one to play a few times with the same / a similar group of people. Plus I bought all the expansions so I ought to get some play out of them Smile

**Admin** Tue 16 Feb 2016, 08:20

Mathematically this seems like a big ask unless you include some smaller quick style games. If you didn't...

10*10 = 100 games - 100 specific games. Lets assume that each game takes 1-2 hours (medium Euro/Ameritrash game)... maybe you could get 2 played in one evening (on average) - that's still 50 weeks playing just the games on this 10*10 list. If you only play at the club on a Tuesday that will pretty much fill your year with no other games played. I find that slightly depressing. I like the variety of games I play at the club. Admittedly this leaves me with some of my games which only hit the table maybe once or twice in a year... but I'm ok with that...

So if I were doing this as a 'challenge' (which I could possibly complete) I'd have to be realistic and include games like

Animal upon Animal
Avalon
Love Letter
Rhino Hero
Coup
PitchCar

That would be > 50% of the total in almost 1 evening Wink

Andy S Tue 16 Feb 2016, 10:54

My tip of the day: if you want to play lots of games, don't try to design your own. Unless you're unemployed - maybe then you can do both.

Partially because I am still so new to the hobby, there are so many games I want to try (most of Dave's list above, for starters). But there is still so much playtesting to do on The Path to Panic. Whenever I spend time playing it, I have to force myself to ignore that I could have spent that time playing something else. I think I'll have to content myself with a list of 10 games I'd like to play at least once, at some point in the next 10 months. Most of these I have never played. This should certainly be doable, moreso than the 100 game challenge!

Cosmic Encounter
Targi
Forbidden Stars
Splendor
Archipelago
Viticulture
Specter Ops
Fury of Dracula (taking care of that one tonight!)
Knitwit
Roll for the Galaxy

SamVS Tue 16 Feb 2016, 12:03

It seems to me that playing one game ten times is more in the spirit of the challenge than ten games one time (which is what most of us do every ten weeks). Understand the games deeper. Enjoy them more as a result, even if you don't hit 10 x 10. I'd probably name one or two games to start, get a few people to agree to a bunch of games of it, then at the end of the year we'll see how many games I played how many times and how many I actually hit ten plays with.

My point is, yes, I'm in on Cosmic Encounter, Paul, anyone else? Very Happy

I have to quote this essay I read recently by Richard Garfield for poetic symmetry with Andy's post:

Colonial Andy wrote:if you want to play lots of games, don't try to design your own.

Richard Garfield wrote:People who wish to design games should play games. Lots of them.

There are designers who say they don’t play other people’s games because they are afraid the concepts therein will infiltrate their design. They believe in design in a vacuum. Imagine a world where Steven Spielberg didn’t watch films, Stephen King didn’t read anything, and Stephen Hawking didn’t consider anyone’s science but his own. Do you think their craft would be better? In that world I don’t believe we would even know their names.

Isaac Newton famously claimed he could see further because he was standing on the shoulder of giants, and in fact, there are no cultural advances in a vacuum—whether art or science. Why should games be any different?

While there are some successful designers that maintain an attitude of minimizing outside influence for fear of being “contaminated,” I can only believe that their games would be better if they embraced and built upon the wonderful tradition of games and the work of their contemporaries. Their decision is made to showcase their personal design talent at the cost of the game’s quality.

“Fine,” you say. “I am designing board games, so I will play board games.” To this I say, “Not enough!” You should play board games, card games, electronic games, sports, arcade games, roleplaying games, miniature games, wargames, mathematical games, party games, puzzle hunts, and casino games. You should watch game shows, sporting events, and game championships.

Great design may incorporate ideas from all games.

Jamie Tue 16 Feb 2016, 12:07

Richard Garfield wrote:People who wish to design games should play games. Lots of them.

Wondering it that assumes the budding designer doesn't have a day job; or, has a day job, and that day job, is designing games?

PaulC Tue 16 Feb 2016, 12:10

I'm planning on playing Viticulture at least 10 times this year. 3 down, 7 to go. Who's with me?

**DaveB** Tue 16 Feb 2016, 12:33

PaulC wrote:I'm planning on playing Viticulture at least 10 times this year. 3 down, 7 to go. Who's with me?

I'll certainly be up for a frame or two Smile

systemsam Tue 16 Feb 2016, 13:56

PaulG wrote:
Sam wrote:I think a mix of long and short games is necessary. 100 four hours games in 10 months? — 10 four hour games a month, anyone? If you come to every club session that's 50 or so evenings left in the year to play games, maybe time for two medium weight games per evening if you stay all night, plus whatever your arrange outside of club meetings. Certainly a bit of challenge here.

I think I could play 10 games of just, for instance, Forbidden Stars (there seems to be a lot to get into in that game: getting your head around the turn resolution order, learning the combat cards and their potential uses outside of combat), or another fairly huge game, then a bunch of medium and light games — Summoner Wars, Netrunner, Pandemic Legacy, Roll/Race for the Galaxy, Tigris and Euphrates, Memoir '44, and Cosmic Encounter are a few games I would like to deep dive into.
I'm up for a deep dive into Cosmic Encounter. Think it could be an interesting one to play a few times with the same / a similar group of people. Plus I bought all the expansions so I ought to get some play out of them

I have played Cosmic encounter over a fair few sessions with the same people and it was certainly interesting, diplomatic (read: bitchy!) , and great fun. Would very much like to get into this again!

Andy S Tue 16 Feb 2016, 13:59

Sam always makes such convincing arguments. Smile

My reluctance to follow Mr Garfield's advice isn't for fear of contaminating my own design; he is right after all that it is beneficial to acknowledge and experience that which your predecessors have already achieved (and, often, to a superior degree). For me, as I believe it would be for most people, it is about having enough time to do everything. I simply don't have enough time to play multiple board games every week and playtest my own game and iterate in response to those playtests (including conceiving new mechanics and physically crafting new prototype bits to support those mechanics) on top of my work and family commitments. I would love to play loads of board games (and RPGs, sports, video games, etc), but I can't see where I would fit all that in. As Jamie speculated, perhaps RG had in mind someone without a full time job, or someone whose full time job is designing a game.

Yes, my goal of playing each of the 10 games listed above at least once isn't in keeping with the spirit of the 10x10 challenge, but, if only from the point of view of an amateur designer, I think it makes more sense to scratch the surface of multiple different types of games rather than get right into the guts of a single one or two. Mr Garfield justifiably advocates a large quantity of play, but as I am unable to manage that, I'll have to settle for variety.

I would love to sign up for a Cosmic Encounter season, but I need to ask Mrs Colonial first!

systemsam Tue 16 Feb 2016, 14:03

Richard Garfield wrote:People who wish to design games should play games. Lots of them.

There are designers who say they don’t play other people’s games because they are afraid the concepts therein will infiltrate their design. They believe in design in a vacuum. Imagine a world where Steven Spielberg didn’t watch films, Stephen King didn’t read anything, and Stephen Hawking didn’t consider anyone’s science but his own. Do you think their craft would be better? In that world I don’t believe we would even know their names.

Isaac Newton famously claimed he could see further because he was standing on the shoulder of giants, and in fact, there are no cultural advances in a vacuum—whether art or science. Why should games be any different?

While there are some successful designers that maintain an attitude of minimizing outside influence for fear of being “contaminated,” I can only believe that their games would be better if they embraced and built upon the wonderful tradition of games and the work of their contemporaries. Their decision is made to showcase their personal design talent at the cost of the game’s quality.

“Fine,” you say. “I am designing board games, so I will play board games.” To this I say, “Not enough!” You should play board games, card games, electronic games, sports, arcade games, roleplaying games, miniature games, wargames, mathematical games, party games, puzzle hunts, and casino games. You should watch game shows, sporting events, and game championships.

Great design may incorporate ideas from all games.

[/quote]

Of course, all of this is just copying copies of the original inspiration, which is the greatest game of all. Your experience of life and the perspective of your own outlook moulded by your own life history is perhaps the most important thing to bring. Anything I created would likely be influenced by religion, ethics and philosophy.

I'm not disagreeing with the above. Creativity and 'originality' should be backed up by studious research. Which is why I can't be arsed tongue

JohnH Tue 16 Feb 2016, 14:36

My counts so far:

Small
Biblios: 9
Lost Cities: 5
Race for the Galaxy: 5
Codenames: 3
Roll for the Galaxy: 3 (only game on this list I don't own)
King of Tokyo: 2
Mangrovia: 2
Carcassonne: 1
Jaipur: 1
Sushi Go: 1

Mid-heavy:
Fleet: 4
Fury of Dracula: 2
Mysterium: 2
Time stories: 2 (this will never get to 10 unless they release 7 more expansions this year)
Legendary Encounters: 0
Eclipse: 0
Rokoko: 0
Glen More: 0
Pandemic: 0
Shadows over Camelot: 0

Games I'd like to add, but don't own so can't commit to 10x10:
Pirates Den: 4
Fuse: 3
Trickerion: 1
Viticulture: 1
Twilight Imperium: 1 (if I managed to get 10 of this I would be most impressed)

There's a definite lean towards my lighter games. I guess I can attribute that to time constraints, as well as wanting to play other peoples' heavier games on Tuesday evenings.

As for the discussion on needing to play games to design better ones. I'd say yes, experiencing other types of games will enhance your ability to create a game yourself.

JohnH Mon 04 Jul 2016, 13:16

How's everyone doing with this then?

I've played 81 different games in total so far this year (so bgg tells me), and went through my 250th actual gameplay this year yesterday. I've only listed the physical games I've played more than twice.

I'm at 5/10, but 4 of those are smallish games. I've tended to hop around a bit on the big game side, playing about 30 mid-big games this year, but only 8 of these more than twice. This list is clearly heavily influenced by Agata's preference for smallish games (and legendary encounters)

Updated 10x10 counts so far:

Small
Biblios: 14
Love Letter: 12
Deception: 12
King of Tokyo: 11
Sea of Clouds: 9
Lost Cities: 7
Race for the Galaxy: 5
7 Wonders: Duel: 5
Carcassonne: 5
Sushi Go: 5
Kodama: 5
Codenames: 4
CV:4
Mangrovia: 4
Jaipur: 3

Mid-heavy:
Legendary Encounters: 12
Fury of Dracula: 5
Fleet: 4
Euphoria: 4
TIME stories: 4
Viticulture: 3
Trickerion: 3
Rokoko: 3

SamVS Sat 14 Jan 2017, 00:45

How many games did you get to 10 plays with last year?

I think I got to seven with Cosmic Encounter. Nine if you count The Iron Throne.
Four missions of Mechs vs. Minions.
I played Arkham Horror and Eldritch Horror twice each... so that's kind of a four.
Three games of Blood Rage.
Three of Mare Nostrum
Codenames and Secret Hitler a decent bunch.
Avalon quite a bit, as usual.
A bunch of Magic Realms, but only digitally in RealmSpeak.

That's... probably it? Not great progress.

I don't know if I got any better as Cosmic, though how much better can you get at it really?

Magic Realms gave me a lesson or two in not wading into danger. No longer do I make moves because they "seem fun". Fun is no longer on my agenda. Succeed, or be eaten.

I have got progressively worse at Avalon over the years. This is good data. I now know that a life of honesty is my best winning strategy.

Blood Rage was an argument in favor of not judging a game on the first play.

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