SBGC's Thoughts on Today's Result

You know what I'm talking about. Rant away.

Really? Isn't Facebook/Twitter filled with enough hatred we want to pollute this forum?

Imo - decision made - let's pull up our socks and get on with dealing with it... Rather than crying over spilt milk - pick up the mop and start cleaning up - the shop opens as usual tomorrow.

Some of the insults from supposed 'socialites' are horrendous.

And for the record I voted Remain...

Now guilds of London...

I'm not on Facebook or Twitter, almost everyone at work was in the Leave camp and we've had a jolly day discussing it. Even everyone on Radio 5 seem surprisingly upbeat about the whole thing. On the other hand my family WhatsApp has been about as a joyful as watching a nuclear meltdown. There's almost as much satisfaction and misery as watching two opposing groups of fans walk away from a football match. I don't think any political decision had engaged people as much in my lifetime. There's a lot of energy to go around, and I find the whole thing quite exciting.

As for the result — well, I never really cared. I think it's hysteria to suggest that the UK can't handle one path or other other, and though there must be a bumpy road ahead for us now I think even the Remain voters should recognise there is some considerable potential in this change if our own leaders are able to take advantage of it. The EU economy is not growing quickly. It has questionable organisation and has legislated some very iffy rules. I'm not upset to see it go.

Most importantly, here is the new EU council building:



It the possibly the stupidest looking building in the world. The EU may be a powerful trading bloc, but it has terrible taste.

How will this decision affect board games? That's the important question.

I would like to think people here are a little more measured than the average person on Facebook. I'm interested in everyone's opinions

I was a remain, feeling that the short term impact was probably serious enough to not consider leaving... although longer term, I suspect we could be better off.

Im not looking forward to import fees on products from Europe, and I'm at serious risk of redundancy, 2/3rds of the company are likely to be laid off in the next couple of months...

Sorry to hear that, Scott, that sucks. Are the redundancies related to result? What industry are you in?

Sam wrote:How will this decision affect board games? That's the important question.

Future boardgames involving a world map will have a more complicated Europe region than they otherwise would have.

The next expansion for Labyrinth: The War on Terror will have a "Brexit" card, possibly a rough equivalent of the "Patriot Act" card. (The U.S. is no longer adjacent to any countries except Canada)

A Brexit board game (possibly a 2-player card-driven game similar to 1960: The Making of the President, in which you travel around the country campaigning for votes) will pop up on Kickstarter soon.

I was in the shake-it-all-about camp. I didn't expect the result we got though. Still, I feel confident and positive, perhaps unfounded, but seems better to keep a positive focus and look for what's good about what we do have, rather than lament what we don't.

I made the point on FB that change and uncertainty are not always bad things. Time will tell I guess.

Hope it goes well for you on the job front Scott.

Anyone else noticed the hysterics and pitchforks on FB?

I think games will get more expensive - more tax as they will pretty much be imported from Europe.

I also think it will have negative consequences for kick-starter. Many games are EU friendly and ship from Germany (only some from the UK) - so again getting it to the UK from there we will be hit by another import tax most likely. This might put more and more UK backers off. And I would say UK backers are second only to Americans on the majority of projects (IN TERMS OF NUMBERS).

But is this [reducing the appeal of KS] a bad thing? Time will tell.

Maybe we will be doing games runs over the France/Germany to pick up loads of cheap boards - akin to the old booze runs of the 80s/90s. Or even Scotland when the UK disbands.

Stuff board game cafes - get yourself a board games warehouse is Calais/Edinburgh?

Jamie wrote:Anyone else noticed the hysterics and pitchforks on FB?

Yes hence my original comment - Its like playing Avalon/Werewolf at SBGC... burn them!

Sorry to hear of your predicted plight Scott. Hopefully it wont be as bad. I also predict academia is in for a bumpy ride...

Sam wrote:Sorry to hear that, Scott, that sucks. Are the redundancies related to result? What industry are you in?

Directly related, I work in financial services, a lot of our planned work for the year has now been canned by customers who not surprisingly are bracing themselves for recession / cost cutting, the fall in the markets / value of the pound was always going to result in this.

I voted remain. Largely because people much smarter and more informed about the actual arguments for and against than I am said it would be better, and I tend to trust those people ahead of people who just want to have a shouting contest or spin things this way or that.

As it is, well, here we are. Time for that stiff upper lip as they say and let's see how it goes.


This next thing is a bit out there though - Is anyone else really worried that in 50 years time they'll be teaching about this in history class talking about a "domino effect" that led to world war 3? The rise of the right, fracturing of europe etc etc

JohnH wrote:I voted remain. Largely because people much smarter and more informed about the actual arguments for and against than I am said it would be better, and I tend to trust those people ahead of people who just want to have a shouting contest or spin things this way or that.

As it is, well, here we are. Time for that stiff upper lip as they say and let's see how it goes.


This next thing is a bit out there though - Is anyone else really worried that in 50 years time they'll be teaching about this in history class talking about a "domino effect" that led to world war 3? The rise of the right, fracturing of europe etc etc

+1 to all of that

I didn't vote. I can't. I can't afford to be a citizen. Despite living here for 16 years and paying taxes for almost the entirety of that time, it'd still cost me upward of £1500.

I am quite disappointed about the outcome, but not as much as I will be if the Americans manage to elect Trump as president (let's not get into that though). I have tremendous respect for all those who voted to remain and who are, despite being angry/frustrated/disillusioned, determined to try to make the best of the outcome. Stiff upper lip indeed - it's an admirable and quintessentially British attitude.

JohnH wrote:This next thing is a bit out there though - Is anyone else really worried that in 50 years time they'll be teaching about this in history class talking about a "domino effect" that led to world war 3? The rise of the right, fracturing of europe etc etc

This is what truly terrifies me. The spectre of uncertainty and fear, which leads to anger, and then to hate, and you know the rest.

Relieved to see you lot seem to be largely remain.

I think it will have profoundly negative consequences. It will be awful for my sector (environmental conservation) in particular. If the decision had been taken by a clear majority of a properly informed electorate, that would be one thing, but to see so much damage caused by a leave campaign built on lies and appealing to to the very worst aspects of humanity, cheered on by a right wing press owned by tax exiles, whilst broadcasters abandoned their role in the democratic process, it is too much to take.

I voted Remain and I'm thoroughly disappointed by the result. Most of the people I know who voted Leave were doing so due to the immigration "issue" and would refuse to even look at any other issues beyond that.

As to whether or not it will directly affect my work remains to be seen. I work in construction, mainly the civils sector, i.e. roads etc. Our workload tends to largely correlate to the budget of various councils and Highways England. In the short term I think I'll be fine as it's going to take a little while for it to filter through, the long term effects I'm not too sure about. I'm relatively lucky in that my profession is quite desirable around the world so perhaps emigration is an option should things get really shit.

I pretty much hated the UK already. I hate the monarchism, nationalism and history of the country. I hate colonialism, including in Northern Ireland. I hate the invasions of other countries like Iraq.. I hate the tone of our political debate and the influence of the right wing corporate lapdog media. I hate the elitism and the private education system which facilitates it. I hate the level of ignorance. I hate the inequality. I hate every government that's been in power in my entire lifetime. I hate the square mile. I hate the north/south divide and the dereliction of industry. I hate the term Great Britain and the xenophobic campaign rallying around it. I hate the lies and the acceptability of lying. I hate the selfishness and the insular closed a mindedness. I hate the outcome of this vote. I hate the neoliberal unrepresentative faux-democratic system of government and the grateful acceptance people show for it.

And, yes, its quite likely to screw over the careers and quality of life of those close to me as well as personally. And that sucks massively. But that's not why I'm ashamed to be British.

I'm absolutely fucking furious. I could rant for hours but that's the crux of it.

karl_b wrote:I'm absolutely fucking furious. I could rant for hours but that's the crux of it.

Stop being a tease. Tell us what you think.

Sam wrote:But that's not why I'm ashamed to be British.

Where you off to next?

JohnH wrote:This next thing is a bit out there though - Is anyone else really worried that in 50 years time they'll be teaching about this in history class talking about a "domino effect" that led to world war 3? The rise of the right, fracturing of europe etc etc

I like your post John but this bit is the most irrational, unjustified sci-fi level speculation I've seen yet! Leave voters might say: staying in to support an undemocratic superpower with plans to create it's own army could be the start of a domino effect that leads to a world war. Both suggestions are based on nothing. The homeless man who lives outside my nearest Tesco might say: cutting down trees will lead to the aliens coming to cleanse the earth of the human menace.

Andy wrote: Despite living here for 16 years and paying taxes for almost the entirety of that time, it'd still cost me upward of £1500.

Wow, I had no idea. I wonder how they worked that one out.

Meurig wrote:It will be awful for my sector (environmental conservation) in particular. If the decision had been taken by a clear majority of a properly informed electorate, that would be one thing, but to see so much damage caused by a leave campaign built on lies and appealing to to the very worst aspects of humanity

Eh, what can you expect? Democracy. It's either the wrong choice for the wrong reasons, or the right choice for the wrong reasons.

Jamie wrote:the shake-it-all-about camp

This should have been the official name of the campaign.

You can expect a fair press. You can expect an Electoral Commission that's actually worthwhile preventing the publication of outright lies on leaflets purporting to be 'official referendum' information. You can expect the state broadcaster to identify irrefutable lies as lies rather than just saying 'both sides disagree' and washing their hands of their journalistic responsibilities. You can expect that a irreversible decision of such enormous magnitude should require a qualified majority to pass. You can expect a Prime Minister that doesn't gamble the nation's future away as an easy way to resolve an internal party dispute.

Basically, democracy is about more than whether people get to put an x on a piece of paper.

What's with all the doom-mongery guys? I don't get it. Sure, bumpy in the short-term, but nobody has a crystal ball, nobody knows for sure that this a bad thing long term. However, if we keep telling ourselves we're doomed, we'll do ourselves no favours, and will probably help bring about our own fears. The only thing that counts now, is dealing with things as they are, and making the best of what we have.

Am I missing something?

Jamie wrote:What's with all the doom-mongery guys? I don't get it. Sure, bumpy in the short-term, but nobody has a crystal ball, nobody knows for sure that this a bad thing long term. However, if we keep telling ourselves we're doomed, we'll do ourselves no favours, and will probably help bring about our own fears. The only thing that counts now, is dealing with things as they are, and making the best of what we have.

Am I missing something?

Many things apparently. I have friends who need visas, work in a sector reliant on immigration and have a partner reliant on EU protections for workers. Further public sector cuts and privatisation by the now increasingly right wing government could end my job. Economic changes predicted by the experts suggest we are likely to have mortgage trouble.

More than that, some of us are far more interested in being global citizens than British. Cutting ourself off from our neighbours even symbolically is reprehensible enough. I'm currently on holiday in an international but primarily European melting pot in central France. With a Dutch guy. I'm genuinely ashamed to admit my nationality to those we run into. Like Karl, I'm also furious.

Sam - I thought we should embrace change... Or was that a different argument? Who is the one not liking change now? Your view here just smells of 'not getting the result YOU wanted'.  

And I disagree. I don't think the UK will suddenly abandon working rights etc. Look at the regions that tipped the balance in this vote - the old labour heartlands. Working class. Turned up in their droves to vote on this. So if their work conditions changed for the predicted worse - would they not vote out the right wing government? Look at the apathy levels in recent years of general elections. This referendum was something where the common man (I hate that term) felt they could really say 'screw you' to the establishment. And to some extent they have.

Or maybe it will be so bad that the vote will only be given to the Elite gentleman while we scrub the floors of his Downton Abbey? The good old times.

As for the VISA stuff - there is 2 years of negotiation yet before our exit. Wait and see what comes out in the wash. 2 years is a long time for us to end up achieving a Norway - half in half out stance (which based on the vote makes sense). I guess the results of that negotiation depend highly on whether France and Germany spit their dummy. But if they did that could risk the entire EU anyway. Turbulent yes. End of days - no. It also depends on who replaces Cameron in October. You could join the Conservative party and masks your vote stand their if you are that passionate.

Holland have already voted 'leave' some time ago and the government over-ruled it apparently. I don't see Holland in a civil war do you?

P.s - you have a right to be angry (I also am as I was a remain) - but the naysaying wont help anyone.